thisbluespirit: (s&s - ot3)
[personal profile] thisbluespirit
From [livejournal.com profile] evelyn_b: Recommend something with one of your favorite actors in it for an old-TV newbie (me).

Well, I gave this matter about two seconds of consideration before I knew there was only one answer. I know that [livejournal.com profile] evelyn_b has been enjoying everything she's seen of Doctor Who so far - and also likes I, Claudius (and Julius Caesar?), so what else could I say but...

Blake's 7 (BBC 1978-81)

I once wrote a non-spoilery introduction post that may help (because if you Google B7 or look at anything to do with it, you will be majorly spoiled), but in short, it is not exactly I, Claudius in space, but if you sort of took that, a Shakespearean tragedy (especially Julius Caesar), 1984, Doctor Who, Robin Hood and a whole lot of snark and cardboard spaceships and 70s glam rock in space costumes and shook it up in a bag, you might just get something like Blake's 7.

In terms of actors I like, it has David Collings in the last episode, and I like all the regulars and am very pleased to catch them in other old TV.

It is unofficially/semi-officially connected to Doctor Who, mainly because so many people worked on both shows in the 70s, from Terry Nation (B7's creator, and creator of the Daleks) to various actors, set designers, directors, the producer, the script editor Chris Boucher (who also wrote Robots of Death, one of my fave DW eps, which also features David Collings & is Agatha Christie/Isaac Asimov-inspired) to some of the props. (And then in the 80s, DW borrowed some B7 props back, so there's one scene in a Seventh Doctor story where people are wearing Avon and Servalan's costumes.) Some corners of the Doctor Who Extended Universe cross the two officially.

You should pop over to my other post here, but basically, it is the anti-Star Trek, it could win the universe snarking competition by a mile, it has fanfic tropes for real, and despite all the reasons that it shouldn't work, it does, and it's amazing and enjoyable and bleak and heart-breaking and ridiculous all at the same time & almost every single character is interesting, from that guard on the left to our heroes (and our villains).

It also, btw, has the best/worst costumes and the very worst SFX! (Classic Who has nothing on Blake's 7. In any argument about which show has most delightfully terrible SFX, B7 is already the winner.)

Anyway, it is a thing! It's definitely worth taking in at some point during your Doctor Who tour. It's like the 1970s Torchwood, only if Torchwood weren't awful. (Sorry, Torchwood, I'm just never going to like you much; I think we'll both have to accept that. And anyway, obv. Torchwood could never be as good as B7. That would be silly.)

S1 is slow, although it still has fabulous costumes and snark, but if you get fed up, you can probably get by with eps 1-3, 6 and 12-13, before going onto S2, where the pace picks up rapidly. The big downside is that for complicated reasons, it's not out on DVD in Region 1, but YouTube/Dailymotion searching usually coughs up the eps. (At the moment, it's here, but the same copyright people are quite dedicated to taking it down again.)


The other thing I could rec here is obviously Sapphire and Steel, (ITV 1979-1981) which is one of the most amazing bits of old British SF ever made. It embraces its slowness and cheapness and makes a virtue of it, and spent all its money on its stars, which was a good decision, as they got Joanna Lumley and David McCallum. David Collings features in two of the "Assignments" as Silver, and it's a very good part to see him in.

S&S is a show about mysterious creepy things going wrong with time because humans have been playing with dangerous things like clocks and nursery rhymes and photographs and flowers and railway stations (and, worst of all, motorway service stations). Sapphire and Steel are mysterious beings who come along and sort these things out. They're not human, but we don't know what they are, except seriously cool, telepathic, and very beautiful and that they like standing about looking alarmed at stuff before dealing with it by being nearly as scary as the scary stuff. They call themselves Elements, but neither Sapphire nor Steel is actually an element anyway, so who knows? As a TV Guide once put it: "There are many ways of keeping an audience's attention - total lack of explanation is not supposed to be one of them."

It is a weird gem of SF and it is seriously mind-blowing and awesome. Once you get accustomed to the fact that nobody and nothing will ever move quickly in it, it gets really addictive. (I was once vidding it and thought my software had frozen but it was just Sapphire and Steel standing very still while looking mildly alarmed and beautiful again.) The fic for it is also weird and beautiful and wonderful and everybody does it slightly differently, because nobody knows what any of it means.

(I was going to link to eponymous_rose's brilliant guide, but it is now locked, tragically, because it was the best intro to S&S. Have this fanvid I made ages ago. It isn't a good substitute, but despite me being a newbie vidder and too ill to get the aspect ratio right (I know! eek!), it's still a good intro to what the show is.)

The length is only the equivalent of six Classic Who serials, or "Assignments" as they're known in S&S, and a few people have all of them up on YouTube, (e.g. here but the DVDs are also out pretty much everywhere, too). Assignment One is particularly slow and still has a lot of trappings of its original concept as a children's show (before somebody changed their minds and turned it into more general teatime tales of terror).

There are apparently currently plans to remake it which is intriguing but also terrifying, because is modern TV brave enough to forego any explanations whatsoever? Can they find anybody as good as Joanna Lumley and David McCallum? How will I ever cope if somebody else is Silver? The thought is scarier than an evil pillow*.

But at least not as bad as the idea of the B7 remake, which we have to hope will never happen. (Or better still, a pilot/1 series happens and is awful and cancelled BUT intrigues some new fans. Sounds like a cunning plan?)


(I'm sorry if I'm reccing too strongly, but while I'm apologetic about some of my stranger old TV loves, I am never going apologise for loving these two. Even if they're possibly the strangest of all. They won't work for everyone, but they're good enough & influential in the SF field to be well worth trying for anybody interested in either SF/fantasy or old British telly.)

* It is important to note that while S&S doesn't even try to compete in the silly SFX stakes, it does have one truly amazing category winner in Assignment Three's evil pillow. If I didn't want to get this posted now, I would go look for my pic of Steel glaring at said evil pillow.

Date: 29 Sep 2015 09:10 pm (UTC)
kaffy_r: Still from first S&S episode, showing Lead (Lead laughing)
From: [personal profile] kaffy_r
A remake of S&S? Will it get them out of the cafe?

*ducks, runs*

Date: 29 Sep 2015 04:50 pm (UTC)
ext_3965: (David Collings Jo Lumley Sapphire & Silv)
From: [identity profile] persiflage-1.livejournal.com
Sapphire and Steel is UH-MAZING!

I think remaking it is a very bad idea!

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From: [identity profile] persiflage-1.livejournal.com - Date: 29 Sep 2015 05:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 29 Sep 2015 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com
Everything you say about B7 is, of course, true.

And, oh, yes, Sapphire & Steel. I may or may not have said this on LJ before, but it always makes me think... There's this (usually unstated) principle in SF, or at the very least in SF TV shows, that while you can be creative in coming up with alien characters and technologies and settings, they can never be too genuinely alien, because they have to be comprehensible to the audience and to be usable for the kinds of storytelling human beings understand. This principle is clearly, obviously, fundamentally true... and S&S ignores it completely. And somehow, despite all logic, it works. But I can't see how it would be possible to remake it. It shouldn't have been possible to make it the first time!

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From: [identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com - Date: 29 Sep 2015 08:26 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 29 Sep 2015 06:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com
Some things do NOT need to be remade. The originals are quite sufficient (and excellent)!!

Date: 29 Sep 2015 06:14 pm (UTC)
clocketpatch: A small, innocent-looking red alarm clock, stuck forever at 10 to 7. (Default)
From: [personal profile] clocketpatch
I agree with all of these (and fully support you continuing to foist them on those willing to listen, and frequently! Because it took me long enough to listen and watch B7 and look how things snowballed from there...)

A re-make of Sapphire and Steel? That is a terrible idea. I can't think of a single way that would work out well. A re-make of Blake's 7 I can at least kind of think of a few ways they might managed it, but S & S? No.

Date: 29 Sep 2015 06:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] learnsslowly.livejournal.com
Excellent - Although I was just slightly obsessed by Sapphire and Steel and especially Blake's 7 the first time round, so I probably didn't actually need your eloquent recommendation!

Date: 29 Sep 2015 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evelyn-b.livejournal.com
This is a beautiful post. Never apologize for reccing too strongly! Love is the wheel of the universe (except when it's snark), and anyway, these shows sound AMAZING IN THE EXTREME.

I am at the library now so I cannot watch any fanvids, but I will be home later! and I will read your non-spoilery intro post, too!

(I tried to watch some Torchwood and I wanted to like it but it was just a bit too douchey for me; maybe I'll try again in the future)

(also, I do love Julius Caesar A LOT) (the tragedy, not the guy).

Date: 29 Sep 2015 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mab-browne.livejournal.com
A remake? I had enough trouble accepting that different actors did the Big Finish audios, even if those actors were David Warner and Susannah Harker. A new telly version? Nah, mate.

Date: 29 Sep 2015 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] doreyg.livejournal.com
I love both of these shows (not shoes, bad brain) and this post just reminded me why. They really are the best of 70s-80s Sci-Fi, and I tend to end up shaking them at people whenever I have to explain why I like that era so much. They're just so unapologetically weird and lovely!

And now I also sort of want to write more weird elements fic, oh dear.

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Date: 29 Sep 2015 07:57 pm (UTC)
ext_23799: (Default)
From: [identity profile] aralias.livejournal.com
The thought is scarier than an evil pillow :D

i lolled.

and... so, i enjoyed the MUNCLE remake, but it was pretty shiny and non-confrontational. it doesn't do anything interesting at all, really. and that's not a good place for sapphire and steel to go, when it's all weird.

Date: 29 Sep 2015 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swordznsorcery.livejournal.com
Yes yes yes to all of this. Take [livejournal.com profile] lost_spook's advice, for she is wise. And Tarrant and Dayna are best. Obviously she's not entirely wise, because "Torchwood" is wonderful, but we can all get things wrong occasionally. ;)

*considers mentioning Ben Steed*

*rapidly decides against it*

And S&S is terrific too, but in a completely different way, so they're a great set of recs. One's loud and shooty, but smart in its own way, and the other is slow and considered. And a bit less obviously cardboard. ;) Although yes, evil pillow. Still, it's not a wobbly, cardboard evil pillow, so there is that. And it does manage to be effective, for all that it sounds so gloriously naff on paper.

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Date: 29 Sep 2015 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lycoris.livejournal.com
I bought Sapphire and Steel in the last Network Sale (now they are having another one and I hate all who linked me to that damn place WHO NEEDS MONEY AND FOOD arragh.) but haven't got round to watching it yet because it seems my Mum's kind of thing so we're waiting till we've finished Fringe. I ... the fact there is an evil pillow suggests to me that we're probably going to enjoy this.

... man, I need to get the Seventh Doctor episodes I don't have and marathon them, I have missed this glorious costume sharing. It will please me. :) (I like Servalan stealing Romana's coat though!)

I will always maintain that someone could do a brilliant remake of Blake's 7. They would just have to be really right on the ball and filled with a lot of understanding of the original and what it was and wasn't. The chances of us getting it are small. But it COULD happen!

Date: 29 Sep 2015 10:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com
it is not exactly I, Claudius in space, but if you sort of took that, a Shakespearean tragedy (especially Julius Caesar), 1984, Doctor Who, Robin Hood and a whole lot of snark and cardboard spaceships and 70s glam rock in space costumes and shook it up in a bag, you might just get something like Blake's 7.

This is delightfully accurate, hee hee!

The only Torchwood I've watched, because I'm not a Russell T. Davies fan, was Children of Earth, and that was only for Peter Capaldi's scenes as Frobisher. ohhh, wowww, that was painful. Worth watching, though. Maybe you could watch that one for him, the way I did -- fast-forwarding until he's on the screen. *grin*

I can't believe I STILL haven't watched S&S. Only been meaning to for years. *sigh* Must try it soon.

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Date: 30 Sep 2015 01:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaxomsride.livejournal.com
Of course there is Dr Who as well for Old telly rec. After all most of the actors showed up there at some point.


I reserve judgement until it is done. So many reboots are terrible but depending on who they get to do it, it may beat the current trend.

Blake's 7 is cursed. No remake ever gets beyond the "in development" stage.

Who to cast as Sapphire and Steel though...

How about Morgana and Arthur from the Beebs Merlin series? (one hasty check on IMDb) That is Bradley James and Katie McGrath. Or possibly Emilia Fox would do a better Sapphire.

I would love the reboot to feature the originals even though the Elements are not supposed to age - I think - however that could be an effect of the trap they were in.





Date: 30 Sep 2015 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kronette.livejournal.com
I initially watched S&S for my addiction to David McCallum...and was blown away by the stories. The one at the train station was super freaky and amazing and I think I gasped about a dozen times. Silver and Lead were vastly different but equally enjoyable whenever they showed up.

That was an evil pillow. *nods*

Date: 30 Sep 2015 04:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ride-4ever.livejournal.com
I adore your S&S rec post! I want to tempt it with yummy snacks so that it will follow me home.

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Date: 30 Sep 2015 02:52 pm (UTC)
liadt: Samurai Sanjuro smiling (Zen)
From: [personal profile] liadt
Yes, failed pilots and then the TV makers who think they know better can go away and never upset us again! I do think a one off might be a good idea, because I've seen people requesting 'Fright Night' the original film and some people might have come to it off David Tennant's remake (unless I'm suffering horror film confusion).

Date: 2 Oct 2015 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dimity-blue.livejournal.com
I love your recs. They're full of love, a little bit of mischief in poking fun at the series' drawbacks, and a lot of humour. I hope people give in and watch B7 and S&S. ♥

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